I just thought you might like to see what the Amish people are doing on the roof of our barn...

They're kinda hard to see because I took it from the house (far away) and it's kinda darkish out... but you get the idea.



The guy at the top is hoping a rope that is tied around the guy further down, if that guy falls they both die. Kinda dumb huh?

Ginger &hearts

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Why are they doing that?

The Amish don't believe in using electricity or any other modern technologies (including cars). This means that all machinery invented in the past couple hundred years is off-limits to them.

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RachEL

  

Um... What does that have to do with them on the roof?

And that's not *all* true, some of them can. It depends on what they're church says. The church Bishop gets to decied what they can and can't use. If he wanted to use a car he could say "Um... you know what? Car's ARE okay."
Most of the Amish people in Maryland use milk pumps because lets face it they can't make a living off of hand milking 10 ten cows. The Amish people aroudn here can use chinesaws because they're into lumber. And they can use motors to run their saw mills. They can't use anything that needs battrys but if it runs on gas/desil it's fine. They can't have rubber tires but they can have bikes with wooden/metal tires. THey can't have indoor plumbing unless they buy a built house that has it. Even then they can't use the sinks other then the one in the kitchen... You see how silly tehri rules are?

Oh and the real funny thing, they can have phones if they aren't in the house and they're far enough away that they can't hear them if they ring.

Ginger &hearts

I don't think the rules are "silly." This is what they believe and hold dear to them. It's different, not wrong or dumb or silly, just different.

I never said they were wrong. But I stick with it being a little silly that they don't take addvantige of technology.

Ginger &hearts

That's like saying it's "silly" of someone to believe in God. It's "silly" to believe that Jesus could actually have returned to Earth after his death, or that he could do so again. It's "silly" to believe that after you die, your soul is reincarnated into a new body.

Their religion says technology is immoral. Calling their religious belief "silly" is not ok.

---
RachEL

  

http://www.sheroescentral.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=18&topic_id=39567&mesg_id=39567&page=

listen carefully:

Click on the link
scroll down
Now read Katana's Banner

-SCI (by the powers invested in Padfoot)



http://www.gateworld.net/index.shtml

But it's their life. It's not up to you to judge them. They obviously feel that this is the right way to live. perhaps they feel you are a little silly for living your life the way you do? We have religious freedom here, and this is their religion. They aren't hurting anybody by doing it, so why even bother to judge?

I'm not trying to be mean, and I'm sorry if I at all offend you with this post.

I'm not JUDGING!!!! You aren't offending me at all and I wish that I hadn't offended EL! I don't knwo what's wrong with her... I never said that they were dumb! I said what they were DOING was dumb! I never said that what they believed in was dumb! I said that not using technology was dumb!

I really have to ask ONE MORE TIME have you ever met an Amish person!? HAVE YOU!? Have you taled to them about god and what they "believe in"? I'm sure they would tell you that the whole technlogy thing has nothing to do with god and religion.
Please stop beating on me! I have worked with Amish people many times and find them to be smart fun great people. THey are JUST like you and me! I didn't mean to say anything bad about them and I'm sorry if that's how you took it.

My dad built that roof BTW, I thought he was an idiot for going on that roof. My brother fell off that roof, a hamer was dropped from that roof that hit my other brother, my ssiter fell off a ladder about 20 feet up, I helped paint the siding and nearly fell more times then I care to remember. People on roofs are DUMB no matter what religion they belong to.

Ginger &hearts

Ginger, please take a deep breathe and let it out.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

There are some missing shingles. They're fixing it so that our hay doesn't get ruined. I'm glad they're doing it but dang! Can't they think of a safer way?!

Eidt: See that big black stop on the far side? That's a missing shingle stop.

Ginger &hearts

Oh I get it now. Yeah couldn't they get a few more ropes or people or something?

They could, but they didn't. That's why I thought it was a little dumb and unsafe.

Ginger &hearts

Excuse me?

Your post below states that the only thing you think they are "dumb" for is being on the roof. Yet here you are suggesting that it would be less dumb if they had *more* people on the roof.

Please stop contradicting yourself.

---
RachEL

  

Um, they're doing it that way for religious-based reasons. I think it's kinda offensive to call someone's religious practices dumb.

---
RachEL

  

I got the impression it was the lack of safety, not the religious practises.

Yes, but most safer methods would involve things that go against their religious beliefs.

I mean, I really doubt they do things unsafely just randomly, and I also doubt they're so stupid as to not realize that they're doing something unsafe, or that they aren't good at making it as safe as possible for themselves.

---
RachEL

  

Yeah. Couldn't they at least have a ladder?

THEY DO! Of course we gave them a ladder! How do you think they got up there??? That barn is at least 100 feet high, it's not like they jumped up there....

Ginger &hearts

Oh sorry.
EDIT- Um...yeah so I made a bit of a mess of all my replies in this thread so I'll just go.

Whoa! I never said that it was dumb the way they live!!!! I was saying that the fact that they're on the roof is dumb!

And it's not like they went up there to be close to god... they're just fixing our roof so that we'll let them how some firewood off our land...


By the way, have you ever met an Amish person? I'm just wondering...


Edit: I have to ask, what are some safer methods? And how would they go ageinst what the believe in? As far as I know there would be no plugging in of anything that would make it safer... They just can't use things that need to be pluged in or have battrys so...

Ginger &hearts

I know they went up there to fix your roof. But they are fixing your roof in a way that doesn't violate their religious beliefs. That isn't dumb.

>I was saying that the fact that they're on the roof is dumb!

How do you think they're going to fix your roof without being on your roof??

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RachEL

  

There isn't any other way but I'm saying that it's dumb to be on a roof anytime anywhere... Sure it needs to be fixed and that's why we have people that go on roofs but my dad was almost killed falling off a roof adn I've SEEN with my own two eyes Amish people fall off roofs. I just think it's a little crazy for ANYONE to be ona roof. It's not because they're Amish, it's because they're on a roof.

I know that the roof has to be fixed and they're taking a risk knowing full well that's going on, they are adults and can decied for themselves what's right and what's unsafe. So it's fine, I don't care if they're on the roof!

Ginger &hearts

1. Calling them dumb for something you employ them to do is not right.
2. You are still directly contradicting your other posts.

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RachEL

  

I agree with that. Besides, that's a pretty smart way to fix a roof if your doing it the amish way. They are probably pretty experienced doing that, so I bet they aren't in any danger anyway.
♥ Love,
Karen


Dumbledore eats grapes, yo!

Yeah I agree with that.

>I agree with that. Besides, that's a pretty smart way to fix a roof if your doing it the amish way

That's a pretty safe way if you're doing it anyway... There isn't any other way but I'm saying that it's dumb to be on a roof anytime anywhere... Sure it needs to be fixed and that's why we have people that go on roofs but my dad was almost killed falling off a roof adn I've SEEN with my own two eyes Amish people fall off roofs. I just think it's a little crazy for ANYONE to be ona roof. It's not because they're Amish, it's because they're on a roof.

Ginger &hearts

A. Your initial post implied that the way they were doing it was dumb, not that doing it at all is dumb.

B. Uh, no, it's not particularly dumb. Someone has to fix the roof. Calling someone dumb for doing something you ASKED them to do is also not right.

C. If you are careful and know what you're doing, being on a roof is not particularly "dumb" or "crazy", anymore than driving a car at 60mph is or jumping on a horse is. Either has the potential for serious injury or death, yet people do both because the benefits outweigh the costs. That's not dumb.

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RachEL

  

*hugs Ginger*

It'll be okay, I understand what you mean. You just trying to say, myabt the rope should be tied to something more sturdy. If guy below falls there's a good chance that the weight and force of him falling would pull guy above down.

And I think if you didn't specify they were Amish, no one would have a problem with this post. They might even possibly start laughing at their "stupidity" in not being as safe as possible.

*stands in front of Ginger*

Yeah. Go ahead and start arguing with me.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

I agree but I was hurt by attitude toward me.

I actually don't see much attitude towards you. You were asking questions. It seems more like EL and Ginger are bickering. You seem to be caught up in the middle. Although you did edit one of your posts and I don't know what that said.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

It was sarcasam.

Ginger directly contradicts her reasons for claiming they're dumb. At one point, she claims the only reason she thinks they're dumb is that they're on a roof at all. At another, she claims the reason she thinks they're dumb is the specific way they're going about their job. I'd appreciate it if she clarified what she *really* means this time, and why she contradicted herself multiple times earlier.

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RachEL

  

Okay. Sometimes when a person gets a little heated or is trying to explain something they don't say it correctly. Personally I don't see how she attacked their religion. Ginger has a problem with roofs and heights and just the fact that people are up there is bugging her.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

Ginger's original post states

"I just thought you might like to see what the Amish people are doing on the roof of our barn... The guy at the top is hoping a rope that is tied around the guy further down, if that guy falls they both die. Kinda dumb huh?"

Implication "the way Amish people fix rooves is dumb." Nevermind the fact that they fix rooves that way because other ways are against their religion.

---
RachEL

  

And if she said, ""I just thought you might like to see what the tall/fat/skinny/short/Muslim/Wiccan/Christian/black/Asian/white people are doing on the roof of our barn... The guy at the top is hoping a rope that is tied around the guy further down, if that guy falls they both die. Kinda dumb huh?"

What would you say about that? That fat people are dumb? That Asian people are dumb?

What if she didn't specify anything about the people and said they were just people? Are all people dumb then?

I'm not trying to make an arguement. I'm trying to clear things up.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

Then why go on, repeatedly throughout the thread, about how much she thinks their belief is dumb?

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RachEL

  

*Stomps foot* I WAS NOT contradicting myself!

Here it is all neat with numbers just for you:

1. The way they are doing it isn't the safest way.
2. The fact that they're on a roof is dumb
3. I don't judge Amish people for what they believe in.
4. I will always think that not using technlogy that makes life easier is dumb.
5. I'm sorry if I offened anyone. I thought that the picture was cool and I thought that it was a little funny. I'M FREAKEN SORRY!

Does that clear it up?

Ginger &hearts

My only real issue here is with your #4, which has been my main issue all along in this thread.

"I will always think that not using technlogy that makes life easier is dumb."

What you are saying here is "I think Amish religious beliefs are dumb." This is highly offensive. It also directly contradicts your #3.

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RachEL

  

*Blank stare* But that's not their religious beliefs... That's where YOU are wrong. Would you please answer my question? Have you ever met an Amish person?

Ginger &hearts

Not using technology IS one of their religious beliefs!

And yes, I have, though I fail to see how that matters in any way at all.

---
RachEL

  

If she thinks taking advantage of the technology man created is a smart thing to do, then that's what she thinks and believes.

And I think you're reading too much into this. Go ahead and say I'm being naive, but sometimes things are as innocent as they seem.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

>If she thinks taking advantage of the technology man created is a smart
> thing to do, then that's what she thinks and believes.

It may not be a smart thing for her. That does not give her the right to call people that believe that "dumb", just as I do not have the right to call Christians dumb.

>And I think you're reading too much into this. Go ahead and say I'm
>being naive, but sometimes things are as innocent as they seem.

I am not saying she is being deliberately offensive. I am saying that, regardless of her intent, she IS being offensive.

---
RachEL

  

Heh. Off-topic but I looked up the definition of silly and one of the definitions is "rustic, plain". So, I guess the Amish are silly. Heh heh. (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/silly)

More on topic: I believe she was calling their situation "dumb" and then it all got carried out of hand.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

But she has stated repeatedly in other posts in this thread that the religious practice of not using technology is dumb.

---
RachEL

  

And I have wasted way to much time I could be spending on the 'Zine (which is why I was here in the first place). </shameless plug>

I have also said what I wanted to.

And I am not going to argue with you EL because I don't see a point in it any longer.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

OMG just let it go.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!! *Falls breathlessly into your arms*

I had no idea people would get so mad at me!!! I didn't mean to say ANYTHING bad about the AMish people *Cries*

Ginger &hearts

*hugs*

I understand. I understand.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

*pats Ginger on the back comfortingly*


EDIT: Sorry EL. I was overreacting a little bit.

Revive 'Fans!!!

Hey, buddy? Comfort Ginger if you want to, but don't just butt in to "glare" at someone and bitch about why they "can't just drop it." It's rude, and it's a personal attack.

I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck
with a pink carnation and a pickup truck

And before someone attacks Crete for calling her rude, she said her action was rude not her.

Crete, non-sheroes is becoming dangerous.

~Born Again Gutterer~

+1006

Everyone's going to need armor soon.

No kidding.

I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck
with a pink carnation and a pickup truck

*blushes* Sorry. I had just read the entire thing and I felt bad for Ginger. I'll edit my post now. *hangs head in shame*

Revive 'Fans!!!

Everyone gets heated, it's only natural.

I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck
with a pink carnation and a pickup truck

I know, and when it happens to me and I say things without thinking, I feel really bad afterwards.

Revive 'Fans!!!

Don't cry! I understand where you are coming.

You are entitled to your own beliefs about technology just as much as Amish people are justified in holding whatever beliefs they wish to hold. It's a horrendously obvious double standard that we are not to express any disagreement with the way Amish people view technology, but their entire view on the subject is a direct contradiction of the way mainstream society views technology. Amish people are trying to freeze a certain time of advancement and maintain that (for the most part) whereas mainstream society seeks continuous technological advancement. The Amish's belief is that we should refrain from using most technology, and mainstream society's is that we should use technology. The Amish's belief is a direct contradiction to the majority opinion's belief about technology, but I - and most other people - would not be offended if an Amish person were to say to that using technology is silly. That's their belief, and I respect that they hold it; similarly, my belief (and Ginger's belief) is just as valid and should not be berated simply because it is the majority opinion. Their belief that modern technology is a bad thing is superior to our belief that utilizing technology is to be encouraged? It doesn't add up.

Locked at ginger is gr8's request.