Spoilers
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Does anyone else see the Great Mother Goddess alot differently after reading TC? Personally I won't be able to see Her the same when i read SotL from now on out of indignation for Kyprioth.
In SotL She appeared all kind, fair and motherly to Alanna, but in TC She seems to be a power-hungry bully for taking Kyprioths people away from Him.
(I know i said something about this on a diffeerent thread, but i think it needs its own)

"There'z a Place in France Where ze Naked Monkeyz Dance"

Yes. . . the Great Mother Goddess and Mithros seemed very mean and grouchy. Goddess showed a side other than her nice one... ooh...

I don't see her too different... all people (even gods) have different moods. Maybe she was stressed about the wars on the other side of the world? Or something? ^^;

I just see her as looking different. Her outfit was very... interesting. Especially the snakes. ^^; And I liked the look she got on her face when Aly 'lied', how it was mentioned that the Goddess looked like Alanna... XD *falls over laughing* I tried making that face... it looks odd...

"And if I find some wonderful boyfriend, what'll we do then?"

~Kiki; Kiki's Delivery Service

Yes, it seemed that way too. And Mithros, he didn't seem very fair from this viewpoint.

I am me and I am unique!
Gods all bless,
Rhia

*~*I LOVE TRICKSTER'S CHOICE*~*

BOOK OF THE MONTH:

1. The Wizard's Promise
2. Trickster's Choice

WINNER!!!!!: TRICKSTER'S CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!

To tell the truth, I never really thought of Mithros as nice. He always seemed very stressed and grumpy in a diety sort of way.

(\/)
\/ Dance Mage

Bad things happen when I'm around. Watch out.

Hmm, I kinda agreed at first, but then I got to thinking, what is the gods' point of view? (yes i know that sounds mad, but I've never claimed to be sane.)We've only heard the trickster's side of the story, and, well, he is the trickster...

From the sound of it Kyprioth wasn't the most effective of patron gods - before the invasion the isles were in a pretty constant state of civil war - must have been fairly chaotic. As we know, the Gods don't tend to appreciate chaos, I can imagine Mithros and The Goddess stepping in to impose some form of order on Kyprioth, and thus on the isles. In a way the invasion did do that - it's not a particularly pleasant form of order for the raka, in fact it's downright wrong, but it does seem to be more orderly than before. Don't forget, the gods can't control everything that humans do, and so they may not have intended for the raka to be treated so badly.

They also may not have been able to control who ended up as royalty - the Rittevons or the Jimajens, and thus couldn't stop the insane line from taking power. Or maybe they did. Perhaps they took the kind of long view only available when you're immortal, and decided that reducing Kyprioth so much, and having an unstable royal line, would allow the balance of power to shift back to the raka, but after enough time for both the raka and Kyprioth to have learnt their lessons about the proper way to rule a kingdom.

This is just speculation, of course, but it struck me that the goddess and Mithros left remarkably quickly after Aly told her story, and that the Goddess, at least, did not believe it was true. Their appearance was enough to persuade Aly and Kyprioth that they are being watched, but not watched too closely - it's almost an encouragement, especially for Aly, to go on with the great trick. Kyprioth is a great god, but lesser than his siblings, it's possible (I think) hat he doesn't know what goes on in their minds whilst they can keep tabs on him. Part of the appeal for him is tricking them - what if they are playing on that?

Anyway, that just turned into an excessively long post, but I thought I'd throw it in there....

Kinky.

"Age and treachery!"

Doesnt it say in TC, that the people decided that Kyprioth had been overthrown though.

I took that to mean that the power of belief (especially the belief of a whole nation) can effect teh gods very strongly. Maybethe gods really are different to differnt peoples/nations?


DEZ

thanks for deleting those extra posts! I didn't even no they were there! my computer was giving me so much trouble, I couldn't open the page!

Well, I see how the Great Mother Goddess felt. I mean, who hasn't had a sibling mess up your plans? And this is on a devine level! But she was sorta short-tempered. And so was Mithros.

*Emmy the Bookqueen*
I'm back!

The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with. -Marty Feldman

Happiness is your dentist telling you it won't hurt, then having him catch his hand in the drill. -Johnny Carson

Actually, it's more a question of seeing someone as, say, a brother or sister sees them, rather than - oh, say, a friend or fan does. F'instance, do you have a brother or sister that your friends think is the bee's knees, but YOU know they're the perpetual annoyance in your life? I know I do, certainly!

The Goddess and Mithros in the previous books are being seen through the eyes of a favored worshipper (Alanna) or a supplicant (Daine). In the TRICKSTER books, they're being seen though the eyes of a really, REALLY obnoxious kid brother - and don't tell me you've never laid the smackdown on your younger sibs! Lord knows, I sure did....

Best,
Tim
Your Admin

>the smackdown
Yeah Tim!!! I can see were your coming from, and know your right. After all you live with the ultimate knowledge source of everything Tortall.

Besides the Goddess were TRYING to restore order. Kyproth was weak from the civil wars. The Goddess and Mithros have done their job, now it's time for Aly to kick them out of office!

Impeachment. Florida demands a recount and is silenced by a group of crows!


****
Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination has never read Tamora Pierce.

Gods all bless,

21st century Lady Knights

>Impeachment. Florida demands a recount and is silenced by a
>group of crows!

Yeah, Shrub Bush DOES seem like one of Kyprioth's nastier tricks, doesn't he?


>****
>Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination
>has never read Tamora Pierce.

Um...and this is strange how? Of course martial arts and dance go together....


Frazzled in Australia,
Tim
Your Admin

You’d be surprised.

See people have this stereotypical idea that you can either be a dancer and all dainty or a rough and tumble Kung fu fighter. Never both, that's one of the reasons why I love Tammy's books. She shows her characters (especially Alanna) come to that conclusion.

Also anyone who has ever gotten deeply into Martial Arts or Ballet would see the strong connection. The rest of the world is just a bit slow in the up take.

As to Bush. You should count your blessings, Arnold could be president and then we would really be in trouble! Thank God the Constitutional fathers prepared for just such a day!!!!!

****
Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination has never read Tamora Pierce.

Gods all bless,

21st century Lady Knights

Hey, I hear you! You can pair up Martial Arts with alot of things and Ballet would be very, very hard (which is why I haven't tried it). On a lighter note, if want to see some strange similarities between other things and martial arts try the comic Ranma 1/2. Martial arts cheerleading and ice skating were funny, but I like martial arts tea ceremony best.

Now on something that really pertains to the subject, I thought the gods might be percieved differently because they were in a different country. Maybe the people in Tortall have a different view of the gods than they do on the islands.

Also I would like to add: "I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay..."
(titles on the profile)

Right, see Martial Arts at it's core is all about personal growth, and breaking through your limitations. The punches and kicks are just a way of teaching it. So Martial Arts goes with everything!!!!
****
Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination has never read Tamora Pierce.

Gods all bless,

21st century Lady Knights

football players sometimes take ballet because it helps with foot work and precition. its the same idea with martial arts.

oh...and arnold is better than gray davis...hes more moderate than people think (and was critizied for it). ill save this convo for somewhere else

hehe...edited cuz i forgot to talk about the godess...
i think she just has more than one side, and this is the first time the pissed off side is showing

~rachAel~
I love elephants!!!


thanks, Teggo!

“Tomorrow," said Ron in a muffled voice, "I'd rather you set the alarm clock."

Arnold is WAY better the Gray!! So much better that there is no comparison.

But when it all comes down to it, he's a movie star.

It's like when all the movie stars and musicians came out against the war in Iraq.

Okay if you didn't want us going in a blowing the smitherings out of Saddam that’s okay, but MUSICIANS and MOVIE STARS??? No one cares what they have to say about politics. That's not their expertise.

One last thing....
It was obvious that Arnold was going to win CA. They need someone who can be the nice guy and do the public face. So while Arnold goes and kisses the babies, maybe some smart people can put CA back on it's feet in the back.

Sorry about the length.

****
Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination has never read Tamora Pierce.

Gods all bless,

21st century Lady Knights

*points up* My opinion exactly.

Just Finished: Vacations From Hell by Libba Bray, etc.
Currently Reading: The Singing by Alison Croggon

Novel Count for 2010: 26

Imagine family get togethers with Kyprioth...

She reminded me a lot more of the Minoan Snake Goddess, a rather famous statue that was pulled from the "palace" of Knossos on the Aegean Island of Crete and is now at the archaeological museum at Herakleion... I think it might be what she had in mind... read the description on pg 344 and take a look at it.



I think there are two similar ones in the museum now.

What do you think?

She also seemed...well, a little clueless. I can't believe they fell for Aly's trick...

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

I don't think they really fell for it... rather like get away with it.

~*~Lee~*~
~If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
~Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia- fear of long words
~The quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach, through his chest, an axe.

I think they fell for it. After all, you're not supposed to be able to lie to gods.

  

Yes, but Daine told Aly that she could lie to them by using the truth and omitting certain parts of it.

Just Finished: Vacations From Hell by Libba Bray, etc.
Currently Reading: The Singing by Alison Croggon

Novel Count for 2010: 26

i guess through the other books that we get the idea that gods are always right and they dont have that many feelings. But realisticly they probs get pissed off as much as we do and we might have caught the goddess on a fat day

Actualy, my gods, like the gods in most pantheons, have their strengths and their weaknesses, their prejudices and their feuds--they're just enacted on a much larger scale.

As far as why Mithros and the Goddess came into the Isles, it was just another move in the game to them, another way to screw the kid brother who was being kinda lazy with his humans. Look at the way Juno treated Zeus's affairs and the offspring of those affairs, or the way the goddesses bribed Paris to give them the prize for most beautiful (isn't the bribing of the judge so not kosher?). Or the way Hanuman scampers off with his sibs' belongings. And while the gods' strength comes from the strength of their worshippers, they can only influence so much of their worshippers' behavior (the crossroads in time, when humans must decide what will influence the power in the Divine Realms). It makes things a little more even between humans and gods.

Besides, the Goddess doesn't even show one face to her believers--she has three official ones, after all. Alanna's only ever seen the Mother, but that's just one case. And I can see Mithros having his off days.

These aren't monotheistic gods, but pantheistic ones, dreamt by people to cover each of life's many facets, instead of being responsible for all of them, like the monotheistic gods are. That sort of thing leads to never being able to figure out why God let something like the death of a child happen.

Tammy

“No person is your friend who demands your silence.”
Alice Walker

thanks! very helpful!

I am me and I am unique!
Gods all bless,
Rhia

*~*I LOVE TRICKSTER'S CHOICE*~*

Yea for Tammy!!!! The only problem is now what do we get to debate about?

::evil grin:: I'm sure we'll think of something.

****
Anyone who thinks Kung-Fu and Ballet are a weird combination has never read Tamora Pierce.

Gods all bless,

21st century Lady Knights