Seeing as how most of the topics here are "I GOT IT!" and "How much did it cost you" I thought we could use an actual discussion topic for the book. Do I need to say "spoilers"? I suppose I do. there will be spoilers. MANY MANY spoilers.


So yeah, bought the book and read it in a day.

let's see... good things.

-getting rid of Sarai. I mean, I know she had the good heart and all, but man was she ever annoying! Dove has good sense, and was actually intelligent enough to figure out a lot of stuff about Aly, about the revolution, about everything really. Sarai simply was pretty and nice. No head on her at all.

-Dove being Queen. for all the reasons above. She didn't just wish that the poor people were treated well, she ACTUALLY TREATED THEM WELL. She was as friendly to them as she was to people of her own class (probably because the poor had more sense and actually had a purpose to their lives). I mean, it was rather obvious to me that she'd end up being the queen back when I read Trickster's Choice... and not only because I thought Tammy would want to have that twist. She's just so much more SUITED to it. Sarai really is more the type to run away from home and elope. Tammy got her character perfectly.

-Taybur. Didn't you all LOVE this guy? I mean, I honestly thought that Tammy was going to throw us a curve ball and have him court Aly or something... They REALLY had something going on, and if Nawat *sigh* wasn't in the picture, I'd got for Taybur instead. Intelligence, crafty, truly loyal to his king, understands that a boy-king still needs to be treated like a boy, loving, caring... and in my mind... totally handsome. AND he's a fighter. He rocked. I wish there had been more of him in the book.

-Nuritin. At first I didn't really know what to make of her, and I think that was the point. Is she good? Is she bad? A spy for the crown? Just another noble who isn't exactly evil, but is simply rich and stupid? Eventually you see her true colours and I loved that scene after the riot when she and Chenaol were talking about weapons and seeing the armoury.

-Dove on the kudarung. I LOVED that... when Aly suggested that she show herself to the people.... but out of range of arrows. You just KNOW she gave and very blatant glance over to the kudarung in the pavilion of Secrets as she was talking to Dove then. Good stuff. Can you imagine though... the effect on the rebel fighters to look up and see their queen taking that risk to give them hope? wonderful.

-The Darkings. YAY TAMMY for bringing them back. I really missed them with their obsession with "fun". The idea of Spot (Secret) bouncing on the bed with Dunevon was cute, and I liked how they evolved themselves... picking up new words and grammar, coming up with spy ideas of their own. And the necklace thing where they'd hook around the ear? Just like Secret Service agents with their earpieces. hilarious. Darkings are the Radio of Tammyverse. I'm not entirely she WHY Spot's name was changed to Secret though... unless to ensure that the next time he was asked his name he would simply say "secret" making the one asking thing it was, in fact, secret.

-the "let's get nearly every favourite character from the previous books together" scene. That was just great... Aly got to see her family again, we got to see Numair again, though Rikash was not a name I expected for Daine's second child. Isn't it totally WIERD to see her named "Veralidaine Salmalin"? It just doesn't seem right. I'm still waiting for a story, Tammy, about her and Numy travelling with the kids to Tyra to meet his merchant mother. I wonder what mix of powers Rikash has.

-Aly telling them all about who she really is. Did she REALLY think they'd CARE at that point? Their reaction was exactly what I expected: You mean you tore me away from my chores for THIS? I'm glad she stayed in one sense, but I'm also sad that she's not going back to Tortall in another sense. Still though, she has realy friends, and Nawat *sigh*, and a real job and a new life in the Kyprish Isles.

The BAD

-Ochobu, Ulasim and Junai. This made me really sad for some reason, that ALL THREE generations of that family had to die. I really wish that at least Junai could have lived. I really liked her.

-the deaths of Dunevon and Elsren. I cried during this part of the book... especially when Winna went out to the dock in the middle of the storm and just waited. It was so sad, and so terrible what happened. And everyone feeling lost, and you just wanting to KILL Imajane when she gave Winna that contemptuous look...

Problems

-The number of new characters introduced. Big ones like Nuritin, Nomru, Topabaw, Taybur, Vitorcine... I could remember them. But the names of each and every member of Aly's "Pack" just started to confuse me... especially when I couldn't remember who was male and who was female (though Tammy specifically stated which at least twice) and the names of all the darkings and where they were hidden got a little confusing as well.

-Mundane-ness. At times, the book simply moved too slowly. There were long periods where nothing wa really happening except for Aly gathering information, etc. I know that if it were real, that's actually how it would be, but it translated into some less-than-exciting reading for me.

The Best:

ALY AND NAWAT!
Oh. My. God. They are so adorable. And I want Nawat. no really, I WANT him. I really do think he's even beating Numair in my "Tammy characters I would marry" list. (the word "marry" has been substituted for another, less pretty, word for what I want to do with them) That who scene when he finally returns and they FINALLY.... "get together" is so great. and when they wake up and everyone is WATCHING them.... ouch. no really.. OUCH! it's like, the guy's back for all of five minutes... and I'm already in bed with him. I think Aly handled it well though. And I love how they call children "chicks". Seriously though... Nawat can make my life "interesting" any time he chooses! even if he DOES have bug-breath!

27/female/Toronto

For all the best relationship advice, from flirting to kissing to gettin' physical to dumping... see it at all www.therfs.com

I don't have my book with me at the moment, so I've forgotten some bits of it, but my reactions:

TQ is definitely the best book Tammy's written. I loved the complexity of the plot, and trying to keep track of all the new characters and what's happening in all the areas of rebellion etc. All the little details and things must have given Tammy a headache but it was most definitly worth it.

I absolutely adored the Darkings!
This is the cutest thing I have ever read:
"Whee!" cried the darking. It spread out two wings to slow it's decent onto Taybur's palm.
I was so amused when Winna called her’s Midget. I loved Trick, and Spot/Secret. I love the way Foul got its name, bless it.

I wasn't sure what to make of Nuritin at first, too. But her no nonsense attitude and that she knew how to use a spear in the market riot and was able to kill of a few people without throwing up. Muchos respect to her, and how she looks after her weapons and treats the Raka with respect at the end.

Any scene that had Aly and Kyprioth in it, too
Especially when Kyprioth was on the verge of killing Aly. Such a fantastic scene. That bit did kind of shock (not sure if that's the right word) me, though. I've been so used to seeing the kinder side of Gods from the other heroines, that I forgot that Gods have their nasty sides, as well. It was a rather refreshing change, along with seeing the Graveyard Hag. Aly's reaction, that if she was going to die, she would die arguing was fabulous, too.

EDIT: I totally agree with you, Becca. I really wanted Aly to die. or suffer fiery godly wrath or something. Or for her to fail without the Graveyard Hag intervening.

The final battle scene is amazing. This bit really did make the book for me:

"Look!" Ulasim bellowed, pointing up to her . His voice rang over the clash of weapons and the shrieks of warriors and Stormwings. "Look at her! There! See our future? See how we can be great?"

I don't know how to explain it, but the emotion I imagine in Ulasim's face at that point before he dies leaves me speechless.

Also, the paragraph where the prophecy members are names, seems so eerie to me.
Dove insisted that Ulasim have a grave beside the steps to the throne hall, covered in malachite and bronze, with a white marble marker staing his name, dates of birth and death, and the simple epitaph THE STRONG ONE. Ochobu was buried on the far side of the steps from her son, her grave covered in lapis and bronze. Her epitaph read THE WISE ONE. In time, Fesgao would join them as the warrior in the old prophecy. Aly knew where she fit in, but she wasn't sure that she wanted a marker on her grave that read THE CUNNING ONE. It seemed to her most fitting that no one know where she was buried at all.


I liked the prison break out, only releasing political prisoners and leaving the murderers and rapists in. The burning of the watchtowers with the wedges under the door, the sinking of the ships, and the removal of the Examples were rather fabulous, too. Also, the human eating fish were a nice touch. It would have been nice if Imajane and Rubinyan had been fed to them.

However, I wasn't completely enamored with the idea of pregnant Aly. The both seem so young to me and it's Aly's first serious relationship, that it's quite early to be getting married and having children.

My other criticism would be the epilogue. The Tortallan people seemed so out of place to me, after being submerged in the Islands, with all these new people, then suddenly all the old favourite pop in at the end.

Hmm, I shall add more when I have some time.

Love struck, I've fallen for a lampost

I really liked TQ. It might have been my favourite book by Tammy if I hadn't hated a big aspect of it. I forget the details since I read it months ago, but here my main thoughts:

Good Stuff

*I think it was Tammy's best plot yet. It was unique and intelligent. It wasn't straight forward and character driven like the rest of the Tortall books. The story was primarily about a culture and their history, not a young girl discovering herself. I also liked how it was more puzzley, not everything was clear cut.

*I'm glad she killed off several mainish characters. Finally! I'm so sick of most the main good characters surviving danger. It's more realistic to have characters you like die during trouble, even if it hurts. I did cry during the scene at the docks where they carry in Elsren's body. I would have liked Aly and Nawat to be killed, but I guess that's hoping for too much.

*Not many fight scenes because the story was more intellectual. Yay! I don't like fight scenes. I usually skim them. I liked how the conflict was resolved through plotting and thinking. It kept my attention.

*The Copper Islands culture. Really interesting and a nice change.

Bad Stuff

*Aly wasn't killed/lost forever. I wasn't seriously expecting that to happen, but I did hope for it.

*Nawat didn't turn back into a crow. I thought Tammy might surprise us and have Nawat go bye-bye. But no, it didn't.

*Sarai got pregnant. Surprisingly, I liked her elopement, as sick of young marriages in Tortall as I am. But was yet another young pregnancy really necessary?

*Dove became queen. I knew before I read the book this would happen, so I wasn't shocked or disapointed. Dove would be so much happier in the field. Yes, she's a better queen than Sarai, but that's not what she'd be happiest doing. I'm not too upset though, I understand her being made queen. And she'll do a good job.

*So many characters were introduced and given parts big enough that you actually had to remember them. I probably mixed up tons of these characters through the book.

*I also didn't get attatched to any characters as I did in the other books. But I guess she'd have to give more time to character developement and less to plot for this to happen, which I wouldn't want.

*This next point is a rant about Nawat and Aly. If you don't want to get offended don't read it.

<RANT>



DID THEY HAVE TO GET MARRIED AND PREGNANT AT SEVENTEEN???? GRRRR! I almost threw my book when I read this. I hate them so much. They are some of the worst characters in the Tortall books. GSFESDLFJ! I hate them. Stupid people. "Oh Aly I am a MAN now. See me being MANLY? Now I will pressure you into sex because I am a MAN." Grrr shut up you stupid crow. She treats you like crap, is spoiled and condescending, and you worship her and can't shut up about being a MAN! Get a backbone and a brain. And then she gets pregnant at 17!!! That part pissed me off so much. Ok, be together, whatever, that's to be expected. But must they get hitched and pregnant so young? BAH!!!! So. Annoying. DSLFJSSESFMSEDF!

I have serious issues with romance in the Tortall books. And this was by far the worse romance. I need to stop thinking about this.



</RANT>

Luv, Bec

"It actually DOES say "Adam and Steve," that's what you get for reading the translation." ~God

I think that one thing you are both fogetting is that this is a medieval society. It's NOT modern North America.

Getting married and pregnant at 17 is LATE, that's right, LATE for those times. Particularly for common people who would often be getting married only a year or two after a woman begins menstruating. This is what people did back then. Women did go off to university and establish their careers before marriage and children... marriage and children WAS their career. Though some would do other things, marriage in mid-to-late teens was the norm.

To us it seems as though it's awfully early to be getting pregnant, getting married, having sex... though frankly, to me it doesn't seem so early to be having sex. I first had sex with I was 17, though I wouldn't consider marriage or children at this point. See, I had this.. um... anti-pregnancy charm that I wore around my neck...

Seriously though... think about this in the context of the type of society that they live in, and it's correct. They talked about it to: She WANTED to have sex with him, remember, but didn't want to get pregnant until things were settled and Dove was queen. When that happened, she got pregnant. It was planned.

As for Numair being a MAN... while I agree with you as to the language he used "I am a MAN... I want you NOW!" Aly did want it too. The only reason why they hadn't had sex earlier is because she didn't want a distraction. I think that she finally realized that she could be with the man she loved without having it take over her life (as it certainly does for some people...) and so she made the decision to sleep with him when he returned. If he DIDN'T have the pregnancy charm on him at the moment... do you really think she wouldn't have gotten one as soon as she could and slept with him anyway? They were in love, they had everything to gain, and everything to lose by not being together. Like he said, if he was going to die the next day, he at least wanted to die knowing that they had been together. I think Aly felt the same way.

27/female/Toronto

For all the best relationship advice, from flirting to kissing to gettin' physical to dumping... see it at all www.therfs.com

About Nawat being a MAN. I think that what they meant is that he was no longer a crow-man. He says it himself, "I am no longer a crow who turned into a man, Aly Bright Eyes, I am a man who can be a crow at need, but I am still a man, and I love you." While he was away Nawat had found his place in the human world, as a warrior and a man and was ready to be with Aly. It's as simple as that.

  

I just finished the book and I already need to reread it, because I know there was on part that made me laugh out loud for about five minutes, and I've forgetten it already.

The Good

"Next time, I want a saddle."

The Stormwings saving the children during the riot.

Taybur Sibigat. I love him. For all the reasons you said. You can only have him if you fight me for him. The fact that he has Stormwing friends only makes me love him more.

Aly smiled up at him. "I love you," she replied. "If you get yourself killed, I will be very unhappy with you." I LOVE it when people say that in Tammy's books.

I agree that Dove will make a much better Queen than Sarai.

The Darkings. Adore.

The Not So Good.

All the new people. It wouldn't be so bad if I could pronounce their names, but I kept getting everyone mixed up. Bah.

The ending was a bit sappy. But I'm a big sap, so that's okay.

I think that's it for now. I'll have more later.

  

>*Dove became queen. I knew before I read the book this would
>happen, so I wasn't shocked or disapointed. Dove would be so much
>happier in the field. Yes, she's a better queen than Sarai, but
>that's not what she'd be happiest doing. I'm not too upset though,
>I understand her being made queen. And she'll do a good job.

I kind of agree that Dove my have been happier without the ties of being Queen. But that's the thing that makes her a better Queen than Sarai would have been. She cares more about her people's happiness than her own. She knows her duty and is happy performing it to the best of her ablilities.

  

Taybur had stormwing friends? I must have missed that.

and actually, while the whole "if you get killed, I will be very upset" line was great the FIRST time... I think the idea is getting a little old...

27/female/Toronto

For all the best relationship advice, from flirting to kissing to gettin' physical to dumping... see it at all www.therfs.com

When the female Stormwing lands on the pavilon when Dove is playing nice with the Princess Regant.

As for the "If you get killed, I'll be very upset," I just have a picture in my head of Geroge saying it to Alanna or Numair to Daine and Aly hearing it and loved the idea that she would repeat it to the person she loved.

  

Okay, haven't read the book since I live up in poopy Alaska and the bookstore I live close too doesn't HAVE it yet and the other bookstore does and I don't have time to go get it. So really I shouldn't be replying to this message but I'm going to anyway. Just because I don't like how some of you are saying awful things about Aly and Nawat.

Granted in this day and age it is NOT a good idea for 17 year old's to get married and have sex and have children. But in that time period (and in her own little world) it is okay. And this is Tammy's creation, if thats what she wants its her tapstery to weave. Plus, no one had a HUGE problem about Daine and Numair, considering how much older Numair was than Daine and that she has already had a child and she is not SO much older than Aly herself. And Aly has already done a lot of growing up for a 17 year old. How many people see so much death and war? It changes you. Makes you older. So she may not be older in body but she is in spirit.

Thats just my opnion, now I must wait on bated breath for tomorrow to come so that I can get the book and read it.

First off: SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Second: Aly and Nawat...swoonsighsquee. Just...wow. I love them together, and, well, if I can't have Nawat...well, Aly can just have him, 'cause no matter how much I want him, they're just SO DAMN CUTE together.

Third: Junai, Ochobu, and Ulasim. I nearly cried. And Dunevon and Elsren? *whimper*

I have to admit, when I finished it, I sat back and had to take A Moment. I guess it was a bit of a Holy-Fricking-Shoot-That-Was-Bloody-Amazing-I-Hope-To-God-I'm-Not-Dreaming-Moment.

I was also incredibly relieved that Dove was queen. Even when I finished Trickster's Choice, I thought to myself, 'Damn, but Dove would be a better queen...she knows stuff, man.' Not to mention she seemed a whole heckuva lot like me...^_^

Loved, loved, LOVED the Ratechul and Joshain Streets. Loved them.