***Mild romance spoilers for all the Tortall books!***
***Mild romance spoilers for all the Tortall books!***
***Mild romance spoilers for all the Tortall books!***
***Mild romance spoilers for all the Tortall books!***

If this post reads like a formal paper, I’m sorry. I wanted to organize my thoughts so I got down exactly what I wanted to say... college training might have just taken over. And I know it's long, but I wanted to be meticulous about supporting my theory with evidence (again, college training).

Tamora Pierce is known for books with strong, often female protagonists and supporting characters that are much the same. These characters are known for turning the more sexist (and in Kel’s case, classist) rules and traditions of their medieval world on their ears, occasionally even by accident. Rereading through the Tortall books for the umpteenth time, though, I noticed something a little strange about the romantic bits: these strong, females, who forge their own paths, who generally kick butt and take names, are all pretty passive when it comes to romance. Contrary to how practically every other event happens in the books, they kind of sit there and let romance hit them.

I understand with Alanna and Jon: he was older and more experienced than her and probably less worried than she was about people finding out her sex (he was still concerned, obviously, but pretty much everything she did had something to do with concealing her real gender, so she thought about it a lot more) and she was, according to the Goddess, afraid of love after all. And she *kind of* initiates something with George in WWRLAM, when she suggests that they go somewhere more appropriate for “carrying on,” (by saying “then take me somewhere that is,” not “let’s go somewhere that is,” but that may be because he knows the house better than her... maybe) but it’s George who made the first move in this and all of their encounters. And in the end, she doesn’t ask him to marry her; she says she’d like to marry him, if he’d still have her. Liam was the first one to flirt with her--or the first person she recognized was flirting with her--and he initiates the two sexual encounters that are mentioned in Lioness Rampant. Alanna says to Faithful later in the book about George, “If he’s courting me, I wish he wouldn’t be so careful about it” (I think that’s the exact quote, my roommate has my LR right now). It never occurs to her to turn the tables and court *him*. So she doesn’t like girls who are obvious, like the woman flirting with Liam in that inn. Who says she had to be obvious about it? She’s a smart woman and had by that point observed Court since she was about ten, I’m sure she could figure out some way to make George know the affections he’s held for such a long time were returned. She spent a lot of her time in her palace years down in the slums of Corus with George, with prostitutes and flower-sellers. She should know that he of all people isn’t going to accuse her of unmaidenly behavior if she approached him instead of waiting. Well, maybe to tease her a little.

With Daine, I also understand that Numair’s affections came pretty much out of left field for her, despite previous warnings and foreshadowings. But throughout RotG, it’s always Numair who kisses her. That’s how it’s written, *he* kisses *her*, never *she* kisses *him*. I found one instance in the epilogue where she kisses him back, but that doesn’t really count in my mind. And it’s not like Numair is her first kiss. Pierce makes a point of mentioning that, even indicates that she’s been kissed by more than one boy before. So the shyness of inexperience excuse doesn’t really work this time. Surprise works for maybe the first time, but there are a few other instances after that, where’s she’s had a chance to acclimate herself to this new development, and he’s still kissing her.

I’m on PotS right now, at the beginning of Squire, so the details of Kel’s romance with Cleon aren’t quite as clear as the other two quartets that I just finished, but I do remember he kisses her first at Midwinter. She might be a little more proactive in their relationship later, I can’t remember. And she was undeniably silent and passive about her feelings for Neal. Apparently Neal didn’t feel the same way, so he never made a move and their Relationship-with-a-big-R went unexplored (except in the land of fanfiction, of course).

Oh, there’s Aly, who apparently cut quite a swath through the young squires and noblemen of Corus--but the one who knocked her off her feet, who actually made her fall in love kissed her first, and initiated their first sexual encounter as well. She claimed not to have time for romantic things, what with helping start a rebellion and all, but she seemed to find time pretty quick once she realized Nawat wasn’t just playing. She even had time to tuck in some mild flirting with Taybur.

I’m waiting for Terrier to come out in paperback before I buy it, being poor, but I remember reading it. As far as romance, there was really just a bit of Rosto flirting and one kiss at the end (Rosto initiated) that leaves Beka threatening to clobber him if he does it again. So I haven’t got much to stand on until the whole series comes out, I suppose.

There are a lot reasons why the romance is written like it is: the quartets start when the protagonists are either ten years old and pages or thirteen and just leaving home (Aly’s duology starts with her at sixteen, and Pierce hints at previous romances). There’s no chance for romance before then, they are inexperienced in it and it takes a while for them to get the hang of it. But Alanna has fully three romances before the quartet is over, she’s not new to it even if the men approach her in different ways; previous romances are mentioned with Daine as well as Aly; and Kel’s Yamani calm is so pronounced I find it hard to believe that it would be completely unbalanced by a few kisses or a crush on Neal. The two knights and Aly are all noblewomen, taught from birth to safeguard their reputation and chastity for the purity of their husbands’ lineage. But weren’t they also taught that women couldn’t fight or do spy work, or at the very least come up against those opinions many times? And didn’t they break those misconceptions into about a thousand little pieces each? Why not with romance? It’s not like Alanna followed the whole chastity thing to a t.

I’m interested to know if anyone else has noticed this (it took me dozens of rereadings of each quartet and a couple of Aly’s books before I thought of it) and what they think of this, whether they’ve thought of it before or not. I don’t think it detracts from the books at all--Pierce is still one of my favorite authors, maybe even my favorite. This might be the result of someone who’s in four English courses this semester, two of them Women’s Studies as well, so the habit of overanalyzation, particularly with regards to gender, is a well-exercised one and it’s starting to creep into her everyday life as well.

- Commodore Lane

hmmmm, okay so I'm going to try to be as organized as you when I answer. haha, though I doubt it will happen.

So, first off I don't think that it is extremely obvious or wrong in any way (though I know you said it wasn't wrong). I don't really see the women of Tammy's books as passive in love at all.

Alanna: First off she really does cave in to some noble ideas, more than aly obviously did. She even won't let aly spy because she doesn't think it is "suitable" of all things. I think that is more strange. So it implies that she has picked up at least a little of the noble ideas. Also, she was afraid of love but she definitely had her fun. I think that took initiative and courage. She really grabbed her opportunity with Jon when it presented itself. I think that with George she was always more guarded because in my head she always knew in the back of her mind that if she let herself she would love him the most, forever. And Liam was just a passing fling. I think she was somewhat aggressive in that.

***Just a little side note, I always found it strange that in the Trickster's series Alanna seemed to be...I don't know, meaner? Harsher? that's not the words i'm looking for. hmmm...bitter? Just not as lighthearted as she had been before. She's always been serious and short tempered but she just seemed not herself in these books. But whatever, I digress...

Daine, okay, it was foreshadowed to US the readers but not to her. In her place Numair was her teacher. No way would she have made the first move. If you had a huge crush on your professor would you make the first move? No matter how non-pedophile or wrong the situation was? probably not.

Kel, I think kel was just to sensible to be caught up in any lovey dovey stuff. With neal she didn't go for it because she knew that all they had was friendship. Then she was to busy to think about anyone else, so she was completely surprised when cleon kissed her. She didn't see it coming at all so you could expect her to be aggressive about him. Especially because after he did she was so confused about it.

Aly of course is the most aggressive of all of them. though I think she kind of did the same thing her mother did. With all the men she toyed with she knew that nothing would ever happen. I think she knew that she could really have something more important with Nawat. On top of that back at home she really had no reason, no purpose. when she was with Nawat she had a mission, she was busy with keeping the girls safe. A little less time for flirtations or even thinking about the complications of a relationship.

As for Beka. I agree with you that it's really just too early to tell about that. Really the series needs to be over before we can assess it.

That's what I think at least. I may be completely off. Tammy may have different ideas about why her characters are the way they are.

I happen to like the fact that most of her girls are sensible and are doing more important things than flirting all the time so that they are really surprised when love smacks them in the face.

I hadn´t noticed anything passive about Aly or Kel´s behaviour. I mean, they´re both busy with either starting a rebellion or grueling knight training, so it´s not like they have all the spare time in the world to start flirting and initiating things.

Ditto to the Numair is Daine´s teacher thing. He was her professor and that makes things a lot harder.

However I fully agree with what you said about Alanna. She´s my favourite shero, but I got pretty ticked at her during some of the moments when she was all waiting and desperate. Like when she first meets Liam in LR and ´´pleading filled her eyes`` or something like that. C´mon! She was a lady knight who already had two relationships under her belt, so to speak, and there she was all helpless and confused. And George! I always wondered why she never let him know she was interested in LR. She waited until the very end to express her feelings. But at least it ended well. *George and Alanna fan*

But even though Alanna had had relationships with both Jon and George, both of them had approached her first, and she didn't know what she was supposed to do in this situation to show her interest in Liam- acting like a knight didn't seem right to her, but she didn't know how to act like a lady either.
She had also been friends with Jon and George before becoming romantically involved, so had never been in a situation like that before.

And the stuff that Jon said to her probably would have destroyed some of her confidence as a woman too, since she thinks when she first sees Liam "Why is he interested in me? I'm not as pretty as some of the other women here."
She knows that George loves her, but he also told her he loved her before he ever saw her dressed as a girl, which wouldn't exactly help to build her confidence back up too quickly on her looks and femininity.

I know that she's not completely destroyed after her fight with Jon, but some of the stuff he said to her wouldn't be forgotten quickly.

I agree--I actually like Alanna more for her moments of weakness, especially in the romance department. It was sweet and more than slightly hilarious. I'm sorry, but a person can't be good at everything. She'd be superhuman if she could save the world and be a perfect flirt at the same time.

As for Daine--well, she lived with a sexually liberated Sarra, didn't she? Daine saw what that could do to you--end you up alone in the mountains, no da for your daughter, and a village that treats you like an outcast (unless they need your help, of course). I mean, that's their WORLD--good girls don't make the first move. And for all that Tammy's characters set many stereotypes of their world on their heads, they're not out to fix them all. Romance isn't very important to Daine, or to Alanna, at first--and so when it hits, naturally it's going to hit hard, because they were neither looking for nor expecting it.

Just because you're bold and aggressive in some areas doesn't mean you're that way in all of them. It's one thing to learn to be quick on your feet in combat, and quite another to succeed in romance--look at how awkward men are in that department. And some of this comes from me: I'm quite forward about speaking my own mind, but I prefer to be the pursued, because every time I've been the pursuer, I've made a fool of myself.

That's a lot of Kel's motivation. What has she been called in terms of her femininity? "Cow"? Why on earth would she approach Neal, particularly when she knows someone like Daine is his ideal?

Beka does mention other relationships. Her issues with Rosto are not based on who initiates, but on what he is. She will never be aggressive with him because that will give him ideas. Yes, they have chemistry, but he is a rusher, a criminal, the kind of man she has sworn never to involve herself with.

I think that covers just about everything!

Tammy

“No person is your friend who demands your silence.”
Alice Walker

Thanks for responding!
I read through this post first without realizing who posted it, and then when I got to the "And some of this comes from me: I'm quite forward about speaking my own mind, but I prefer to be the pursued, because every time I've been the pursuer, I've made a fool of myself," I stopped for a moment and considered. I don't think I noticed the topic of this post the first oh, couple dozen times I've read the books because I'm the same way a lot of the times. And like I said before, it's not going to ruin the books forever and ever for me now that I have noticed it. I just wanted to see what other people made of it.

I don't have anything to contribute; just wanted to say I really enjoyed your analysis, formality & all. Thanks for posting it!

i really like your analysis as well.

i dunno, im a pretty passive one in romance as well, i think i identify well with Daine--im currently dating a guy who is a couple years older than me, and much more experienced, i dont really know what to do, so i dont take the initiative much really...

i think with our sheroes-- Alanna is so concentrating on her shield that she doesnt even REALIZE love is there until it smacks her upside the head.

i didnt even get the idea Daine fancied Numair at all, she just cared for him as a teacher and protector really, and he kindof opened her eyes to another possibility.

kel is also really focused on her shield, and though she does admit to feelings for neal and has a *thing* with Cleon, she also tells us when her feelings kind of stop. and she keeps going with her mission. and we never really find out if anything happens with Dom

Aly, first of all, her man wasnt entirely a man at first...he started out more Crow-man, and she says before theire "encounter" in TQ taht he was like, all man or soemthing, i dont quite remember. so that would have been a damper on her initiation. but i think in all of TQ she had just as much push as he did, she was definitely more experienced in that area.

i cant wait for bekas other books to come out....i just re-read Terrier and finisehd last night, i love it. who needs men when you can have KITTIES!